JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny nose

Get the latest happenings from the world of Russell-mania. Learn how to become your own sorcerer's apprentice and mine financial statistics, torture numbers, and delete inconvenient data points to support your theories. Russell often teams up with Rob Bennett, author of Passion Saving to form the Troll Brothers when they post in tandem on Internet discussion boards.

Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby Schroeder » 01/15/09 at 11:08:14

hocus2009 wrote:It is the Passive Investing mindset that causes you to believe that there must be a "system."

No, Rob. It is your constant babbling saying you believe there is Rational approach to investing that makes the reader assume you have some sort of system that others can take action in a way to invest their money. But we both know (by your own admission, no less!) that what you offer is a merely a name without substance.

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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby Orion. » 01/15/09 at 12:07:47

hocus2009 wrote:THERE IS NO SYSTEM!

It is the Passive Investing mindset that causes you to believe that there must be a "system."

Systems don't work.

Rob


dictionary.com
System: ?an ordered and comprehensive assemblage of facts, principles, doctrines, or the like in a particular field of knowledge or thought.


I agree with Rob Bennett that there is no ordered and comprehensive assemblage of facts, principles, doctrines, or the like that support his investment desires AKA Valuation Informed Investing AKA Rational Investing.



dictionary.com
psychosis: a mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality.


Clearly, Rob has a psychosis, not a system.
Seriously, hocus, I don't know if you're really insane or you just believe that acting that way is a good way to get attention.

My closest friends say that it appears to them that's a little bit of both.. -- hocus 2007.
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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby DRiP_Guy » 01/15/09 at 12:23:53

hocus2009 wrote:but is so far is unproven and perhaps even unprovable.

Good point, Drip.

Maybe I'll hide all my money in my mattress.

Rob


In effect, I believe that is just what you did for a decade or so, eh? ?In an oddly fortuitous circumstance, that head in the sand approach would not have not left you horribly behind what a more traditional portfolio would have done over the period, even though your actual burn rate simply could not have been supported by ANY allocation; from 100% fixed to 100% equities, without an external boost of some sort.

Now that the broad market is beaten down ~40% from it's peak, I wonder if Rob finally had the stones to pull the trigger on some equity exposure. His silence on this and other questions speaks volumes.
Robert Michael "Hocus" Bennett, October 22, 2010: "I have been living off my savings for 10 years"
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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby DRiP_Guy » 01/15/09 at 12:28:40

hocus2009 wrote:THERE IS NO SYSTEM!

It is the Passive Investing mindset that causes you to believe that there must be a "system."

Systems don't work.

Rob


Then don't ever call 911.

Don't use your computer to calculate your taxes.

Don't hope that oncoming traffic will get a 'red' when you have a 'green'.

Don't expect your physician's diagnosis and prescription to help you get better.

Don't expect to get correct change from a restaurant.

Don't expect to obtain the unadulterated and full weight of ingredients listed on a food package....

Rob, WTF could you possibly mean?
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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby hocus2009 » 01/15/09 at 12:39:49

Don't expect to get correct change from a restaurant. \r

Say that you tried to reduce the processes that are followed to get correct change to a "system."

You would bring about a disaster.

I have seen this tried in McDonalds. I presented a cashier with a coupon and placed an order. The coupon didn't fit in to her idea of what was supposed to happen when she made change. She pushed the same buttons that she usually pushed, but the amount she handed me was obviously not right. She had taken something that can never be entirely reduced to a system and tried to reduce it entirely to a system.

This is what you have done with investing. Investing cannot be reduced to a system.

There are rules that you can follow. But you need to understand why those rules are there and what the exceptions are. Passive Investing dogmatists lack this understanding and flexibility.

Rational Investors do not lose sight of the purpose of the rules -- to obtain the highest possible return at the lowest possible risk.

Rational Investors change their stock allocations when this is required for them to achieve their goals. They don't let the "system" that tells them to do otherwise stand in the way of their doing what they need to do to achieve their goals.

You have put the system ahead of the goal. That's a mistake. A system that defeats the goal is a system that needs to be junked.

Rob
If you cherish lying and ruining internet communities as much as I do, please support me by buying many copies of my vanity book. Your children will love budget sex and your purchase is tax deductible (Schedule A: casualty loss).

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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby Orion. » 01/15/09 at 12:44:57

Coupons at McDonalds: The result of a decade of "Rational Investing" on a guy who used to have a 6 figure salary.
Seriously, hocus, I don't know if you're really insane or you just believe that acting that way is a good way to get attention.

My closest friends say that it appears to them that's a little bit of both.. -- hocus 2007.
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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby Schroeder » 01/15/09 at 13:26:04

hocus2009 wrote:Rational Investors change their stock allocations when this is required for them to achieve their goals. They don't let the "system" that tells them to do otherwise stand in the way of their doing what they need to do to achieve their goals.

Why can't you build a system that describes when an investor should change their stock allocation? This ain't rocket science, Rob. Or is it?

A rocket scientist can build a system that describes when to adjust course, right? This is appears very similar to what your Rational Investor sets about to accomplish.

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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby DRiP_Guy » 01/15/09 at 14:29:40

hocus2009 wrote:Don't expect to get correct change from a restaurant. \r

Say that you tried to reduce the processes that are followed to get correct change to a "system."

You would bring about a disaster.

I have seen this tried in McDonalds. I presented a cashier with a coupon and placed an order. The coupon didn't fit in to her idea of what was supposed to happen when she made change.


Rob


Rob,

Your belief that proffering a coupon ..or perhaps requiring a credit or discount, a changing of the order, or other foreseeable event can not be systematized, and so therefore we are left forlorn, bereft of hope, and therefore the basics of making change should simply not be taught and we ought to just leave everyone to their intuitive best guess, is indicative of both your mental reasoning capacity and your psychological age.
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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby DRiP_Guy » 01/15/09 at 14:31:50

hocus2009 wrote:Say that you tried to reduce the processes that are followed to get correct change to a "system."

You would bring about a disaster.

I have seen this tried in McDonalds.


There are rules that you can follow. But you need to understand why those rules are there and what the exceptions are.

You have put the system ahead of the goal.

Rob



I would have loved to have seen you tackle Operations Research, Rob.
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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby hocus2009 » 01/15/09 at 14:37:54

Why can't you build a system that describes when an investor should change their stock allocation?

Have Passive Investors been able to identify one stock allocation that is best for all investors?

They have not. Personal circumstances need to be taken into account.

That's the same reason why I cannot tell you what stock allocation all Rational Investors should go with.

All that I can tell you is that changing one's stock allocation in response to dramatic price swings always yields better long-term results than failing to do so.

Rob
If you cherish lying and ruining internet communities as much as I do, please support me by buying many copies of my vanity book. Your children will love budget sex and your purchase is tax deductible (Schedule A: casualty loss).

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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby Orion. » 01/15/09 at 14:41:16

hocus2009 wrote:Why can't you build a system that describes when an investor should change their stock allocation?

Have Passive Investors been able to identify one stock allocation that is best for all investors?

They have not. Personal circumstances need to be taken into account.

That's the same reason why I cannot tell you what stock allocation all Rational Investors should go with.

All that I can tell you is that changing one's stock allocation in response to dramatic price swings always yields better long-term results than failing to do so.

Rob


What a bunch of BS.  There are several simple systems such as your age in bonds. You on the other hand just babble that everything known is bad so we should go with your total vagueness!

;D :lol: :lol:
Seriously, hocus, I don't know if you're really insane or you just believe that acting that way is a good way to get attention.

My closest friends say that it appears to them that's a little bit of both.. -- hocus 2007.
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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby hocus2009 » 01/15/09 at 14:44:55

A rocket scientist can build a system that describes when to adjust course, right?

No.

He can determine what factors usually apply and develop effective guidelines.

But he needs to be willing to adjust his guidelines in circumstances that require adjustments. Failing to make necessary adjustments is irrational. It is the sort of dogmatism that is characteristic of Passive Investing advocates. I oppose that sort of thing.

The goal should be to achieve good investing results, not to become a slave to a "system."

I want financial freedom. Any system that stands in the way of me achieving that is a system that I can do without.

Your desperate need for a "system" is a sign of insecurity, Schroeder. The cause of the insecurity is your "belief" in Passive Investing. You don't believe on a deep level. You have common sense, like all the rest of us. Your common sense stands in opposition to your Passive Investing "needs."

I don't need no stinkin' system. Financial freedom is good enough. And I think it's fair to say that there's no way that one person can have both. Phony "systems" are a big negative.

Rob
If you cherish lying and ruining internet communities as much as I do, please support me by buying many copies of my vanity book. Your children will love budget sex and your purchase is tax deductible (Schedule A: casualty loss).

Luvya Boo! Please come back. I'm on TV now! A big star. Just like you wanted.
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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby hocus2009 » 01/15/09 at 14:47:15

There are several simple systems such as your age in bonds.

It is this sort of "system" that has caused the pain that we are living through today.

Yuck!

I'll go with a rational approach over a Get Rich Quick "system" every time.

Rob
If you cherish lying and ruining internet communities as much as I do, please support me by buying many copies of my vanity book. Your children will love budget sex and your purchase is tax deductible (Schedule A: casualty loss).

Luvya Boo! Please come back. I'm on TV now! A big star. Just like you wanted.
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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby Orion. » 01/15/09 at 14:51:22

hocus2009 wrote:There are several simple systems such as your age in bonds.

It is this sort of "system" that has caused the pain that we are living through today.

Yuck!

I'll go with a rational approach over a Get Rich Quick "system" every time.

Rob


But you don't actually have an "approach". You just babble that anything that someone goes to the trouble of defining is bad or causes undefined pain to undefined "members". You can't define your approach because it wouldn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.  Vagueness is better for the long term troll.
Seriously, hocus, I don't know if you're really insane or you just believe that acting that way is a good way to get attention.

My closest friends say that it appears to them that's a little bit of both.. -- hocus 2007.
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Re: JWR - still wiping the snot from Rob's runny n

Postby Schroeder » 01/15/09 at 14:59:32

hocus2009 wrote:Your desperate need for a "system" is a sign of insecurity, Schroeder.

<snip>

I don't need no stinkin' system.

You are confused, Rob. I have no need for your system. And I perfectly understand that with mommy and daddy's money from your inheritance, you don't need a system, either.

However, you keep babbling about this idea of Rational Investing -- a system with no system. That's fine. It's merely a hook for you to bloviate for hours on end.

Why can't you build a system that describes when an investor should change their stock allocation?

Have Passive Investors been able to identify one stock allocation that is best for all investors?

No one is claiming there is one best stock allocation for all investors.

But when investors want to see what a passive diversified portfolio might look like, several authors like Bill Schultheis, Bill Berstein, John Bogle and others have something to demonstrate to their readers.

You Rob, on the other hand, refuse to offer anything.

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