So be it.

A place for the NFB community to discuss any subject.
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ElSupremo
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So be it.

Post by ElSupremo » Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:29 am

Greetings NFBers :)

I've been asked by those I respect to remove this post so I will. I have nothing further to say on the subject. If anyone has questions they can contact me offline.
Last edited by ElSupremo on Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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musicman
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Post by musicman » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:04 am

ES,

Do what you need to do. We looked at the other place and it does look like they are copying your site. That is a pretty low blow if you were friends. I am new here but it's plain to see what you have done for the people. If it helps I just want to say what a great place this is. The wife and I have learned a great deal and we are grateful.

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ElSupremo
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Post by ElSupremo » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:09 am

Greetings musicman :)

Thank you for the kind words and support. Always apreciated. :D
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th
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Post by th » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:15 pm

An unfortunate set of circumstances.

I went to the "kids clubhouse" with the intent to write an apology. Not because I supported someone's request for a second chance. Not because I was a little harsh with some people because I got sick of their childish whining.

But...I felt it was appropriate to say I was sorry that I took such a strong stance in a place where I wasnt well known, even though I had good intentions. That wasnt right, although I've posted with many of the same people elsewhere, where Hocus has participated for about six months. He was reasonably well behaved there and a good contributor.

So that concern, combined with Hocus's behavior here in his own sandbox, where he acts as badly as his detractors, led me to want to apologize to the people, most of which I didnt know, that had left here.

After seeing what was said about me there, I changed my mind. Somewhere between poor conclusions drawn on skimpy evidence and simple untruths mouthed by very small and sad people, I decided these folks werent worthy of an apology or further comment.

I've said before that ER is more likely happenstance than a well thought out and executed plan. Therefore you get as many fools as heros. Fortunately you can usually tell the difference very quickly.

I've also said that usually a big party was thrown at the companies where we worked when we retired. In some cases though the retiree wasnt invited.

You're better off without them.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. - Nietzsche

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ElSupremo
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Post by ElSupremo » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:26 pm

Greetings th :)
After seeing what was said about me there, I changed my mind. Somewhere between poor conclusions drawn on skimpy evidence and simple untruths mouthed by very small and sad people, I decided these folks werent worthy of an apology or further comment.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Re: So be it.

Post by peteyperson » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:01 pm

ES,

The other site uses the universally used bulletin board software that many sites across the net use, including yours. There is no way that someone else can "copy" that look. The look comes with the free software, pure and simple. Furthermore, the installation looks like the default setting complete with the phpBB logo which hasn't been replaced.

Many original posters have decided to cross-post to both sites, as many don't understand your decision to let hocus back on the NFB. There has also been some mention on the Fool that the decision was made because whilst never asking for money from regulars, hocus contributed to the upkeep. I don't know if this is true or not (it could have just been one poster's conjecture) but it does seem unusual and began to look like when a wealthy individual makes a large contribution to a university and then tries to influence how the university runs thereafter. In the case of universities, the creation of long-term endowment funds are there to provide for some independence from the will of govt funding and to be able to refuse alumni gifts that come with too many strings attached. This smells a little like that to some people I believe. That's the impression I get.

Respectfully,
Petey
ElSupremo wrote: Greetings NFBers :)

I've been asked by those I respect to remove this post so I will. I have nothing further to say on the subject. If anyone has questions they can contact me offline.

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ElSupremo
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Post by ElSupremo » Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:43 pm

Greetings Petey :)

I'll be glad to discuss this offline if you'd like. Thanks.
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Post by hocus2004 » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:27 am

"You get as many fools as heros. Fortunately you can usually tell the difference very quickly."

Not always, though.

You have jumped to unwarranted conclusions on a number of questions, TH. It's not hard to understand why. This situation is complicated and there is a good bit of emotion that comes into play re a number of its aspects. I can see how a newcomer to it would have a hard time making sense of things.

But it does no good for the thought to be put forward that any of these people are "fools." These people have earned themselves the designation of Heroes for their contributions to our community project. Several of them are Heroes of the First Order.

None of us should ever forget that we want them back here. None of us should ever stop working to make that happen. Things are never going to feel 100 percent Normalized without these people around.

Working together, we can do this. Acting as a community we have a power that not one of us as an individual can ever realistically hope to possess.

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Post by unclemick » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:26 am

Poop!

I wanna be a crusty old curmudgeon like Bogle when I grow up.

Bogle's damm fool index funds, un-American and a few other things at the start, Reagan started out as a liberal new deal Democrat, and probably many other examples could be brought to mind.

The flack/wisdom ratio will always be high, BUT in the end a good idea or good data for that matter is where you find it.

I'm willing to be 'foolishly wrong' from time to time if I can learn from it.

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Post by peteyperson » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:13 am

Well ES, as many of the regular posters have now up and left due to this decision, I think it best that you discuss it out in the open (enough has been done behind our backs!). I'm shocked at how compromised this has become, especially considering your previously stated policy that the boards would be free and not soliciting contributions from the regulars in an even manner. It becomes a political special interests problem when you only take from a select few or one person.

I don't expect you to see the problem, you're too in the middle of it. It is enough that many familar names have up and moved. That says it all.

Petey
ElSupremo wrote: Greetings Petey :)

I'll be glad to discuss this offline if you'd like. Thanks.

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ElSupremo
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Post by ElSupremo » Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:44 am

Greetings Petey :)

Let me make a few things clear.

Only a "few" people have actually left and do not intend to post here anymore. Of those few only one was a major contributor. His leaving will be a blow to me personally because we have been friends for a long time and I intend to remain his friend as long as he wants.

These boards are free. I don't see anyone having to pay a fee to use them. And that will never happen. Donations are voluntary. The only reason I started accepting donations was because I was asked to. Some of those folks thought it only fair that I be compensated in some way for the time and effort I put in here and for providing this site. If that is some sort of sin I just don't see it. :?

Also, if I granted a request of one of those contributors that I thought was fair and just then fine. That was my decision as administrator of this site. A few of those who did not like it left. Fine. That is their decision and I respect it. I don't respect the way they have acted since and what some of them have said about me. But I'll put it behind me and move on.

Isn't it funny how for years you can be well thought of and when you give one member a chance to express their opinion you turn into a extortionist and thief! LOL! :lol: It's times like these that you find out who your friends really are. Believe me I've found out!

And finally the only thing that a few familiar names moving on proves is that they could not find a way to get along with one poster. I find that very sad. :(
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Post by kathyet » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:13 am

Hi ES,

I am still here lurking and I actually see this format all over the net so it must be a universal type set up... I am sorry this is happening and that some of the members feel the way they do. I have learned alot from all of you and just wish everyone would come together but if it can't be, it can't be. I still plan on putting in my 2 cents every once in a while.


Kathyet

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ElSupremo
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Post by ElSupremo » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:19 am

Greetings kathyet :)
I still plan on putting in my 2 cents every once in a while.

I'm very happy to hear that. :D But how about 4 cents? :wink:
and just wish everyone would come together but if it can't be, it can't be

Well there no reason it can't be. This has been said 1000 times, if you don't like what someone writes just ignore it. Simple. I guess some folks just can't do that. :(
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Post by musicman » Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:54 am

I checked out that place. If some of those people were your friends you should choose them more carefully. :wink: I don't know how all this started but the guy that runs that place is kind of a jerk. One time he says post at both places. Next time he's happy about getting 1000's of posts away from here? Wierd.

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Post by TRyan » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:04 am

ES,

I appreciate your effort, knowledge and time in keeping things going.

I'll always post every time (and everywhere) I think I can contribute. An "inclusive" - vice exclusive - ideaology works best for me.

Thanx again, TRyan
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ElSupremo
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Post by ElSupremo » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:09 am

Greetings musicman :)

He could not get along with one of our posters so he left. No one is more surprised than I at the way he's acting. He was a great poster here for a long time. Perhaps he's having personal problems I don't know. But I've put this behind me and moved on. I think everyone else should do the same. Thanks for the concern. :D
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ElSupremo
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Post by ElSupremo » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:14 am

Greetings TRyan :)
I'll always post every time (and everywhere) I think I can contribute. An "inclusive" - vice exclusive - ideaology works best for me.

I appreciate the kind words. :D You plan sounds fine to me. Folks are going to do what they do. Everyone will always be welcome here anytime they like. That's why we are here in the first place!:D
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th
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Post by th » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:13 pm

musicman wrote: I checked out that place. If some of those people were your friends you should choose them more carefully. :wink: I don't know how all this started but the guy that runs that place is kind of a jerk. One time he says post at both places. Next time he's happy about getting 1000's of posts away from here? Wierd.


Whats that saying? You find out who your true friends are when you have to move heavy furniture or when you make an unpopular decision.

Whats really funny is that the people who couldnt stand to stay here are still coming in as guests and reading the posts, then commenting on them at the other site.

I was thinking about it last night and the old "Could you explain this to your parents and would they understand it" approach occurred to me. Lets see: "So mom and dad, I used to spend hours a day writing notes about investing to other people who retired early. But then the guy who pays to set this up for us decided to let a guy we dont like also write notes there. We hate this guy because he writes long and drawn out notes about stuff we dont agree with. Sometimes we think the stuff he writes is just supposed to make us mad. We dont have to read anything he writes, but we dont even want him around. We were very angry about it, so we got mad and wrote lots of notes about how unhappy we are. The guy was still allowed to stay there so we called everybody a lot of names and went and made our own place to write notes to each other, primarily about how mad we are at the other guys." :lol:
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. - Nietzsche

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Post by zendrix » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:21 pm

:(
I am the one with the sandwich board on which is written in red letters, "I haven't the foggiest notion what I am talking about."

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Post by SiddFinch1 » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:56 pm

I am still here lurking and I actually see this format all over the net so it must be a universal type set up... I am sorry this is happening and that some of the members feel the way they do. I have learned alot from all of you and just wish everyone would come together but if it can't be, it can't be. I still plan on putting in my 2 cents every once in a while.


Well said. Those are pretty much my feelings exactly. I have seen this basic format at several other sites.
It is a shame that things happened the way they did. Maybe time will heal wounds.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
-- Edmund Burke

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