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hocus2004
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Joined: 10 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Even if the defections from this board are limited to you and FMO (highly unlikely - there will be more) it will be a huge loss for NFB."


This is so. My understanding of things is that we are in universal agreement on this question.

That's something to start with and try to build on, is it not?


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raddr
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpp wrote:
ataloss, raddr, et al.,

Just ignoring him isn't an option?

Bpp


Good idea in theory but in practice it only works if everyone ignores him otherwise he'll hijack the thread with disruptive posts. He's done it a million times here and at TMF and it got him banned at both places. I guess the bottom line for me is that I just don't want to have to hassle with scrolling down past multiple 10,000 word posts berating anyone who disagrees with the nonexistent "SWR tool" and the responses by others to this in the middle of threads that I'm interested in.


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hocus2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Good idea in theory but in practice it only works if everyone ignores him"


Correct.

Which is why it has been suggested many times during the course of the past 25 months that everyone ignore him.

Never works.

It's a puzzle, is it not?


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wanderer
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raddr -

Are you sure you want your valuable, time consuming, well-documented and thoroughly caveated contributions on SWRs to be associated with a site that permits________? (I hate to suggest that because I DO like ES and the incredible place he has put together. Still, BS is BS.)

The insinuation that the someone's obnoxious behavior ('I can see that we are not ready to discuss the realities of SWRs', 'wanderer, rather than complimenting JWR you should have thanked me', and other memorable 'insights') didn't result in the pulling of posts is absurd to anyone familiar with this site's history. I had several of my posts pulled, one after referring to hocus' logorrheic ramblings as 'idiocy'.

I predict that kenm will depart shortly. No real loss as he was so obnoxious and unpleasant. </extremesarcasm>



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ElSupremo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings wanderer Smile

You know I like you. I really do. But you will have to find a way to communicate here without name calling. Your a smart fellow. I know you can do it! I've deleted the offending passage from your post.

If you truly respect the work I've done here you will try to understand what we are doing and why. If you would like to discuss this offline I'll be more than happy to chat with you about it. Very Happy



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ElSupremo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings TH Smile
Quote:
The bottom line is you choose whether or not to read what anyone writes, how you react to it, and what you do as a result.

You got it right TH!



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hocus2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I had several of my posts pulled, one after referring to hocus' logorrheic ramblings as 'idiocy'. "


I will start by saying that Wanderer is my second favorite poster in the history of FIRE/Passion Saving/Retire Early boards. (JWR1945 is first.) Wanderer is a Giant of our little movement.

In response to the comment above, I did not say that no one ever had a post removed for things they said re SWRs. Wanderer has has posts removed by ES. He has never had a post removed by me.

I am not moderator of this board. So it is not my responsibility to decide whether to delete this one or not. If it were, I would delete it.

Venting is one thing. Losing control of your emotions altogether is something else. You have lost control, Wanderer. You need to rein it in if you are to make constructive contributions again.


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KenM
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So ..... here we go again ..... hocus promises to stay on his own board except for very rare occasions - and we now have 7 posts within 24 hours from him full of his usual snide comments and pathetic attempts to get under peoples' skin. I'll repeat some of ataloss's quote
Quote:
he sits back seemingly enjoying the show ..... He has made himself THE big issue and seems to relish that role. And he has done all of this in the past, so he clearly understands the damage it causes, yet he continues to do it anyway. I don't believe he operates here in good faith.
... so hocus has obviously not mended his ways and yet ES welcomes him back hoping for a fresh start.

In the past, hocus's chief apologist has excused hocus's anti-social behaviour and attitude on the basis that hocus is 'easily baited'. Well, I'm also easily baited and I already find hocus's attitude obnoxious and therefore I'm responding accordingly. If there are some who don't like this post then I trust they will treat it in the same way we are advised to treat any hocus post that the rest of us don't like - and ignore it.

I haven't decided what to do yet and will drop in now and again to see what's happening - if hocus keeps his promise (which regrettably I assume is highly unlikely) and stays on his own board except for very rare occasions then I might think about contributing again at a later date if I've anything worthwhile to say.



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ElSupremo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings ataloss Smile

You know I consider you one of my closest friends. But we disagree on many points here.
Quote:
ES, after the last hocus fiasco that lead to his banning I think it was anticipatable that people would leave if he returned.

I was hoping those people would give someone a second chance. I knew one or two might not. Losing any of our members is a blow. We'll just have to do the best we can without them.

Of course anyone who wants can set up a competing site. But I'm not competing with anyone.
Quote:
TH doesn't know what he is talking about but I sympathize because I was TH over at TMF.

Well actually he does. I agree with him that you don't have to read a post if you don't want to. And you react the way you choose too. Good or bad.

You also get to choose whether to post here or not because you disagree with another members views. That those views may be right or wrong just does not matter. They get their say just like everyone else does. This simple point is being missed. I've made that mistake in the past. It won't happen again.



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hocus2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"if hocus keeps his promise (which regrettably I assume is highly unlikely) and stays on his own board... "

What I said is that I plan to post primarily on the SWR board. That is not "my own board." It is a community board moderated by me.

It is OK by me if we move this discussion to the SWR board. I leave it up to the community as a whole to decide that. If you want to see it moved, start a thread over at the SWR board and put up a post on this thread asking that people take it over there. It is not in my power to make others comply. If they do, I will happily go along with the consensus.


"so hocus has obviously not mended his ways and yet ES welcomes him back hoping for a fresh start. "

ES made a mistake, KenM. We are all human, we all make mistakes. He has corrected his mistake. That's to his credit.


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ElSupremo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings bpp Smile
Quote:
Just ignoring him isn't an option?

Thank you bpp!



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ElSupremo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings hocus Smile
Quote:
I am not moderator of this board. So it is not my responsibility to decide whether to delete this one or not. If it were, I would delete it.

I've decided that deleting a post will be a last resort action from now on. I'll do my best to edit out any material in violation of site rules. But I won't make a career of it. I'll only delete a post if I have no other choice.



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ElSupremo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings Ken Smile
Quote:
hocus promises to stay on his own board except for very rare occasions - and we now have 7 posts within 24 hours from him full of his usual snide comments and pathetic attempts to get under peoples' skin.

He also said he would post on other boards in defense of himself or the SWR board if he had too. That's what I've seen so far. Some of the other posts you refer to have been intended to help our site. I few more posts like that would be welcome don't you think?



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KenM
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As usual, we're straight into the misleading and selective hocus quotes
Quote:
"if hocus keeps his promise (which regrettably I assume is highly unlikely) and stays on his own board... "

What I said is that I plan to post primarily on the SWR board


What hocus said was
Quote:
I expect to be posting primarily at the SWR board and only on rare occasions on the other boards of this site.
We now have 9 hocus posts on this board in 25 hours ... and counting .... broken promises on the very first day. hocus????



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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less travelled by, And that has made all the difference.
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hocus2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"That those views may be right or wrong just does not matter. They get their say just like everyone else does. This simple point is being missed. I've made that mistake in the past. It won't happen again."

This is the whole thing reduced to its essence. This is by far the most important point that has been made in the entire affair.

The majority has been trying for 25 months to stomp out the rights of the minority to express its views. This cannot happen. Any board in which it happens is a board which has compromised its integrity in a serious way.

I want all of the various board to succeed. They cannot succeed if the majority is permitted to stomp out the right of the minority to express its views. I will not permit it. I am extremely flexible on many points. There is zero give in me on this one. If these boards destroy themselves, they will do so with me fighting their efforts to do so with every last bit of strength God elected to provide to me.

Forget SWRs for a moment. This is the question that matters. We were once something beautiful and we have become something ugly. That in itself should tell you that we have done something terribly wrong.

We know it too. That's why we can't stop talking about it. We want to get back to the place where we once were, but we have walked so far down the dark path that now we can't find our way home.

ES is handing us the map. If you can't bring yourself to read the map today, don't toss it in the trashcan in haste. Put it in your pocket. You might want to pull it out and look it over at some future time.


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KenM
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please, ES
Quote:
Some of the other posts you refer to have been intended to help our site.
... tell me which ones???



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KenM
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less travelled by, And that has made all the difference.
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hocus2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We now have 9 hocus posts on this board in 25 hours ... and counting .... broken promises on the very first day. hocus????"

So long as there are community members who have questions to ask me, I will do what I can to answer them. You are a community member here, KenM, so that includes you.


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KenM
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This is the question that matters. We were once something beautiful and we have become something ugly. That in itself should tell you that we have done something terribly wrong.

We know it too. That's why we can't stop talking about it. We want to get back to the place where we once were, but we have walked so far down the dark path that now we can't find our way home.
To any normal person that is pathetically absurd and irrational ... and that's my opinion ... and presumably, ES, I'm fully entitled to express my opinion Laughing



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KenM
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less travelled by, And that has made all the difference.
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hocus2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"To any normal person that is pathetically absurd and irrational ... and that's my opinion ... and presumably, ES, I'm fully entitled to express my opinion."

Only ES can speak for ES. I'll speak for me.

It's OK by me if you express your opinion, KenM.


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ElSupremo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings Ken Smile
Quote:
... tell me which ones???


Fine. A couple of quotes from posts in this thread:
Quote:
I hope you will keep your mind open to the idea of resuming your posting career here on a full-time basis. We have important work to do. We need all the good posting talent we can get our hands on.


Quote:
"Even if the defections from this board are limited to you and FMO (highly unlikely - there will be more) it will be a huge loss for NFB."

This is so. My understanding of things is that we are in universal agreement on this question.
That's something to start with and try to build on, is it not?


He's making an effort. Doing his best with a difficult job under the circumstances.



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