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If several posters came forward with the appropriate thanks to me for hanging in there so long defending the insight that had finally been vindicated by the numbers guy (it had been vindicated conceptually a long time before that), it might well have brought all the friction to an end.

Wrong. you're like a bottomless pit.

We gave you not only one uninterrupted thread, but one uninterrupted board. If folks don't thank you at the approriate time and appropriately profusely, you start whining. Now, why don't you scoot off and let the world see all those fabulous insights your board is famous for?

Now, why don't you scoot off...

That's attitude, Wanderer. That's not helpful. That should stop.

I don't know how to do the linking thing, but bensolar, in post 11470, appears to be supporting my assessment regarding hocus' hijacking of the 1HF thread.

thanks, bensolar.

Anyone else remember that bit of hocusiana?

I don't know how to do the linking thing, but bensolar, in post 11470, appears to be supporting my assessment regarding hocus' hijacking of the 1HF thread.

The words that appear on the computer screen when you click on the link do not support it, wanderer.

I simply cannot explain away as pure coincidence how hocus has managed to irritate people both on the REHP board and those who left for calmer more interesting waters, and now surely managed to get on their nerves too.

ironic, no? hocus i sbeginning to remind me of captain bligh. except that he has been given a completely new ship which he refuses to sail.

the words that appear on the computer screen when you click on the link do not support it, wanderer.

I said I asked you to delete a post that was particularly un-useful in building a community. The link supports that. I wonder why es mentions being relieved he didn't have to use his 'nuke' powers for the first time?

Now, time for you to go.

Okay hocus I will be more direct as you are nitpicking to avoid the real issue, as usual.

I object to what you are doing to the FIRE board. You are doing exactly what you complained over and over intercst did to you. You are disrupting the board and you must stop and go back to your own board. You are picking fights with people, you are constantly acting like a spoilt child when people don't recognise your contribution (people don't recognise it because there is nothing to recognise). You haven't blazed a trail even though you seem to think you have.

You've made yourself an unwelcome and highly distruptive person here and frankly I am tired of it. And I am not alone.

Petey

hocus wrote: I support raddr's objections to hocus's idiotic idea.

Actually, it was raddr's idea, Pete. I was just saying that I thought he was on the right track in suggesting it, but that I thought that working out the details was going to be difficult.

Anyone else remember that bit of hocusiana?

yep

peteyperson

Okay hocus I will be more direct...

I object to what you are doing to the FIRE board. You are doing exactly what you complained over and over intercst did to you. You are disrupting the board and you must stop and go back to your own board. You are picking fights with people...

You've made yourself an unwelcome and highly disruptive person here and frankly I am tired of it. And I am not alone.

Please read the thread more carefully.

It started with comments about something that hocus had posted. It continually came back to comments, many disparaging, about what hocus had said, often out of context, many inaccurate.

No. It is not hocus who has been causing the problem. He is being drawn in again and again. The subject is almost always directed to open an old wound and cause division. The subject is almost always presented in such a way as to force hocus to refer to the Motley Fool and intercst.

Please be very careful. It is not hocus who is picking fights. Nor is it you.

Have fun.

John R.

jwr -

Please be very careful. It is not hocus who is picking fights.

yes, petey, it is people like me and bensolar and raddr who are picking fights. bensolar describes our methodology here:

I believe that this post is roughly where wanderer was policed and soon thereafter decided to stop posting there. We were discussing some of JWR1945's interesting work, praising it, giving feedback, all the good things that happen on a message board when people are discussing a common interest. Then, along comes hocus with this gem of a 'constructive post':

see? jwr was right. raddr and I are just 'spoiling' for a fight.

*****

JWR is becoming as implausible as hocus. I wonder when he will correct hocus' implication that all he said was that wanderer was inaccurate? (hint: he also stated that I was 'smearing' him, because he alleges I said (incorrectly) that he was repeatedly wrong. Meanwhile, I have repeatedly provide evidence of his inaccuracies [admittedly, i let ataloss spend his valuable time combing thru hocus' verbal diarrhea - i think we all owe ataloss a hearty thanks for that heroic effort.]) I double dare jwr to bring hocus to heel on that one. And why did jwr say nothing after hocus' ill-advised diatribe on 1HappyFool's post? I would be highly sceptical (sp?) of jwr's pronouncements on hocus, petey.

Of course, jwr will attribute this post to some other issue. Apparently he thinks folks with a 60X withdrawal rate truly give a siht about his 'earth shaking' insights. I invite the readers to draw their own conclusions.

I'm sorry John, but you can't just put this down to yet another conspiracy theory. Repeated conspiracies against hocus cannot follow him from place to place without his having something to do with what happens.

I'm just not buying that.

Petey

JWR1945 wrote: peteyperson

Okay hocus I will be more direct...

I object to what you are doing to the FIRE board. You are doing exactly what you complained over and over intercst did to you. You are disrupting the board and you must stop and go back to your own board. You are picking fights with people...

You've made yourself an unwelcome and highly disruptive person here and frankly I am tired of it. And I am not alone.

Please read the thread more carefully.

It started with comments about something that hocus had posted. It continually came back to comments, many disparaging, about what hocus had said, often out of context, many inaccurate.

No. It is not hocus who has been causing the problem. He is being drawn in again and again. The subject is almost always directed to open an old wound and cause division. The subject is almost always presented in such a way as to force hocus to refer to the Motley Fool and intercst.

Please be very careful. It is not hocus who is picking fights. Nor is it you.

Have fun.

John R.

I'm sorry John, but you can't just put this down to yet another conspiracy theory. Repeated conspiracies against hocus cannot follow him from place to place without his having something to do with what happens.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I'm trying to figure out if hocus reminds me more of captain bligh or richard nixon.

Now, time for you to go.

Again, that's not helpful, Wanderer. You are doing harm to this community with your inabilitty to control yourself.

Repeated conspiracies against hocus cannot follow him from place to place without his having something to do with what happens.

There are no conspiracies, Pete.

And it is no coincidence that great hostility has been expressed re my posting at two different message boards.

This is not personal. People love my posting when I post on other topics. I was one of the most loved posters on the entire Motley Fool site prior to May 13, 2002.

The common thread between what happened at the REHP board and what happened here is that I was posting about the same subject at both places. I have proposed a change in the way that SWRs are determined, and, whether you like to hear me say it or not, the change that I have proposed is an idea with earth-shaking implications for the future of the FIRE movement.

This is not the time or place to go into why (read the "About This Board" post for an overview). But it is the magnitude of the change that is the core driver of this. There are a variety of reasons why accepting this change causes intense discomfort to a good number of people. And it is very hard to argue against this change without engaging in personal attack.

The SWR is a data-based construct; that is the biggest source of friction. People can't just say "oh, he has a different opinion, so what?" as they might re other sorts of issues. When the thing being debated is a numerical calculation, there is a right or wrong. And there are a good number who very much want me to be wrong in what I have revealed to the FIRE community. Data indicating that I am wrong is extremely hard to find, so there is an inevitable temptation to try to destroy the idea by destroying the poster who brought it forward.

The idea is a big one, Pete. People don't like to hear me say that. But it is the bigness of the idea that explains why it can never die. People cannot stop talking about it because they sense how big it is as much no matter how much they want to deny this reality.

People do not have to agree with me re any of this. But those who disagree have a responsibility to the FIRE community to let it rest rather than to engage in endless efforts to stomp it out. People are on the record saying that they disagree, this is all out in the open. I am on the record saying what I believe re SWRs. So the thing to do is to let it rest for a time.

Time will reveal whether I am right or I am wrong. We cannot settle this in one day or one week. We need to let it be and allow it to work itself out over time. We need to learn how to agree to disagree. Someone who disagrees with you is not your enemy. Someone who disagrees with you is just someone who disagrees with you.

It's not always a bad thing for there to be disagreement in a message board community. A new idea is always first held by one person, and then two, and then three, and so on. It never happens that an entire community adopts a bold new idea in the flash of a moment. It takes time. And this one is just complicated enough that it takes more time than a lot of others.

You and the others on your side have the board you want, Pete. And me and JWR1945 have the board we want. The trick is for posters here to stop insisting that the two communities co-exist on the FIRE board. If you want me to come over here and discuss something or other, ask me and I will try to do so. But if you want to lessen the tension, the thing to do is to talk about something else and don't even mention hocus or the new board as an aside in that discussion. Enjoy talking about the things you want to talk about, and leave to me the problem of convincing more people of the merit of my new idea.

Fair enough?

hocus wrote:
The SWR is a data-based construct; that is the biggest source of friction.

The biggest source of friction on this board ain't SWRs, it's you.

LOL (abt hocus' thesis that his scary insights into SWRs frighten the board). I think the fact that the chicken littleism thread has hit 3k views indicates that maybe speculating about how low things will go is a major fixation here. Wasn't that the guts of my 'Q' posting?

and now, from the 'ignorance is bliss' dep't:

hocus:

Again, that's not helpful, Wanderer. You are doing harm to this community with your inabilitty to control yourself.

jwr:

It started with comments about something that hocus had posted. It continually came back to comments, many disparaging, about what hocus had said, often out of context, many inaccurate.

It did start with wanderer saying something positive about some posts that hocus had written.
http://nofeeboards.com/boards/viewtopic ... 138#p11138

Hocus used this to taunt raddr who had complimented hocus on a post made after 5/12/02.

http://nofeeboards.com/boards/viewtopic ... 309#p11309

Then I made a pest of myself by asking questions about the post which hocus won't answer.

Of course, the reason that this is all out of context is that the post is at another board and the copyright holder, hocus, prefers not to move the post here. It appears a little disingenuous to make claims about lack of context under the circumstances.

Greetings hocus :)

Are you talking about statements put forward by me or by someone else?
Can you say what statements it is that you are concerned about?

I won't get into that. I also won't point fingers or name names. I think everyone here can pick out the statements in question.

Greetings wanderer :)

es, do you have a copy of every post? maybe 1HF recalls what hocus posted. Maybe someone else here recalls the facts and circumstances?

I have never deleted any posts. Every post since we came online is in it's original thread. Good luck digging them up!

Greetings FIRE folk :)

I'm locking out this thread. It's time to move on.