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ElSupremo
Admin Board Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 343
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:48 pm    Post subject: For the record Reply with quote

Greetings NFBers Smile

Man what a jack ass he turned out to be! Rolling Eyes I wonder how long it will take for the handful of sheep over at his board to realize it? Confused You have three guesses who this is, the first two don't count. Wink I haven't seen anything like this since the Larry Swedroe days at M*! Rolling Eyes

For the record, and so there is no misunderstanding, we had an admin board here for a while. It was not a "secret" board but was a mechanism where I could get input from a few of our members on decisions concerning our site. My thinking was two or more heads are better than one. That's what I get for thinking. Laughing It could not by design be a public forum or what good would it have done? It was never a secret, just an attempt by me to improve the place. Anyway it's long gone and for good reason.

Since one of it's former members, who I trusted enough to have on that board, has gone insane, Laughing I thought I'd put this out FYI.



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hocus2004
Moderator


Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 752

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with raddr on this one, ES.

Raddr says over on the other board that "I started this board because h*cus was reinstated at NFB after Ataloss and I got him banned in the first place following many discussions and much lobbying on the secret "Administration" board over there." That's an accurate summation. I don't know any of the details of the lobbying effort, but it is clear that there was indeed a lobbying effort going on behind the scenes. You suggested as much in the e-mail you sent me notifying me that my posting privileges had been revoked (there was obviously no claim that I had broken a posting rule because I obviously have never done so, here or anywhere else).

This board is not to be run soley for your benefit or solely for the benefit of your personal friends, ES. You could have set it up that way. To set it up that way, you would need to make clear in the published rules that certain posters have special privileges not possessed by others. You didn't do that. Your published posting rules are part of an agreement you enter with prospective posters when you invite them to join the discussions here. I trusted you that you would administer those rules in a reasonable manner. You did not do so. You allowed three posters (ataloss, raddr, and wanderer) to wage a Campaign of Terror against any community members who posted in an honest and informed way about SWRs. I was the primary target of that campaign and JWR1945 was the secondary target, but it was clear enough what would happen to any others who dared to post in an honest and informed way. It is your job to see that that sort of thing never takes place here, and you dropped the ball. That's the way it is.

You have said on previous occasions that you "made a mistake." We all make mistakes, and we all need to try to forgive the mistakes of others. So those are good words for you to say. But you have been vague as to the nature of the mistake that you believe you made. I say that you made a mistake in permitting the integrity of the board discussions here to be compromised in a serious way. If that is the mistake that you think you made, it would go a long ways toward bringing our problems to resolution for you to clearly say so.

You need to make a decision and stick with it, ES. If you allow hocus to post on these boards, you are going to have honest and informed posting on SWRs appear here. There's no two ways about it. Unfortunately, because of the mistakes that have been made by a good number of community members in the past (you are hardly the one one who has made mistakes), we can't just talk about the substance of SWRs, as we would like. There are now scores of community members at a number of different boards who are on the record having posted deceptively and uncharitably. Some of these people are going to fight very hard to stop reasoned discussions from going forward. They are going to try all sorts of ugly stuff to block us. If we are going to prevail, we need our leadership to be strong and firm (but of course also fair and balanced and prudent).

The SWR issue is one powerful issue, ES. We have learned things about investing that most of the greatest experts in the world do not know. Issues like that are the sorts of issues that build discussion board sites into wonderful learning resources that help thousands. We can conduct our important business here if you give the go-ahead. We can make the SWR board the most thought-provoking board on the face of the internet, as in an earlier time we did with the Motley Fool board. But to do that, there are other things that must take place first. We need to be clear on our purpose. We need to know what kind of board we are. Even more importantly, we need to know what kind of people we are.

Are we the sort of people who brought about the Golden Age of this site, when there were a good number here engaged in honest and informed posting on SWRs at the FIRE board? Or are we the sort who engages in the ugliness that became characteristic of us during the Campaign of Terror? It's a fork in the road, a yes to one and a no to the other. You can't mix the two and come up with anything coherent.

If we choose the high road, have we lost some of our old friends for good? Most likely so. My view is that we should leave the door open to them, but with the same conditions that apply to any newcomer who pays us a visit. The rule should be that we extend a warm welcome to anyone who comes for the purpose of making constructive contributions to our discussions and the back of our hand to any DCMs. Those who engage in DCM-type posting tactics should be giving a warning on the first offense and should be removed on the second. If there is anyone at this point who does not possess an appreciation of the damage that DCM-type posting tactics do to a board community, he or she just flat-out has not been paying attention.

I can get us new posters. As I understand things, many of the posters who post at the Early Retirement Forum (a busy community) came to it from the link provided at the intercst web site. I will be setting up a web site of my own within the next few months. I am of course happy to provide a link to the SWR board if I can do so in good conscience. But I need to know what sort of experience I am inviting readers of my web site to experience. Am I asking them to sign up with the Golden Age NFB.com experience? Or am I asking them to sign up with a Campaign of Terror?

The internet discussiion board is both the best of communications mediums and the worst of communications mediums, depending on how the site rules are administered. You need to make a decision and then stick with it. Which sort of board experience is it that you intend for the future of this site?


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ElSupremo
Admin Board Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 343
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings Hocus Smile
Quote:
Raddr says over on the other board that "I started this board because h*cus was reinstated at NFB after Ataloss and I got him banned in the first place following many discussions and much lobbying on the secret "Administration" board over there."

Well I don't know what your agreeing with. Confused As I said there was nothing secret about the admin board. I told several other members about it so it wasn't much of a secret. Him saying it was a secret is just another inaccurate delusional rant. As for the rest I could care less.
Quote:
You have said on previous occasions that you "made a mistake." We all make mistakes, and we all need to try to forgive the mistakes of others. So those are good words for you to say. But you have been vague as to the nature of the mistake that you believe you made. I say that you made a mistake in permitting the integrity of the board discussions here to be compromised in a serious way. If that is the mistake that you think you made, it would go a long ways toward bringing our problems to resolution for you to clearly say so.

Actually I've made a few. One was in banning anyone from the site. I'll write that off as inexperience. Another was in trying to solve other peoples problems for them. From now on they can work things out for themselves. At this point we have no problems so I see no need to resolve anything. How's that for clarity? Wink
Quote:
You need to make a decision and stick with it, ES.

I've stuck to all of my decisions except one. And I would think you should be happy about that one. Wink

Your the moderator on the SWR board. John is doing a great job over there. So anyone you invite will experience what you want them to on that board. As for the rest, it's always been up to the individual whether they want to post here or not. Those who post here regularly contribute useful and educational stuff on each of the boards. I try to do that as well. The number of visits we get a day tells me a large number of folks like it here too. Even though many of them don't post. I think NFB is a great place and is doing what it should. Everyone(even you know who) is always welcome to join us. They will just have to learn to get along with each other themselves. And that includes you hocus. If they can't do that then they are better off elsewhere because I'm not wiping any more noses. Rolling Eyes FWIW I think your unfairly treated because of your posting style. I can see that but there are many who can't. Because of this you've got your work cut out for you. But I believe you should have your say. Everyone else deserves their say as well. So you and they will get that here from now on. That's the best I can do. That's the way it is.

As for myself I'll keep NFB up and running and do my part to provide good useful stuff. But I've gotten out of the mediator business for good.



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